Modern Learning And The Paradox Of Edtech

Modern Learning And The Paradox Of Edtech

Author: ThoughtStretchers Education February 11, 2026 Duration: 1:13:08

Drew Perkins talks with Brian Lamb, founder of Swivl, about the "Paradox of Edtech" and how modern digital interfaces are changing the way we learn. They discuss the shift from being "data-driven" to "data-informed," the importance of "decentering" for perspective-taking, and how AI can serve as a reflective thought partner for teachers rather than a replacement for human-led instruction.

Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode

Watch on YouTube

Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at drew@thoughtstretchers.org.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

Episode Overview:

Brian Lamb and Drew Perkins explore why traditional edtech often creates a "gamified" version of reality that limits student growth. Brian explains how Swivl is pivoting toward tools that prioritize human reflection over screen time. They dive into the necessity of "decentering"—the cognitive ability to step outside one's own perspective—and how AI can be used to develop "uncomputable intelligence." The conversation also addresses the challenges of teacher preparation and how AI-supported feedback can help early-career teachers navigate the "messy reality" of the classroom.

Timestamped Episode Timeline:

  • [00:04:15] Brian's Background and the Founding of Swivl.
  • [00:10:32] The Paradox of Edtech: Why more tech doesn't always equal more learning.
  • [00:18:45] Gamification vs. Reality: The danger of reducing learning to "winning" a game.
  • [00:25:12] Decentering: Why perspective-taking is a prerequisite for enlightenment.
  • [00:32:50] Data-Driven vs. Data-Informed: Moving past rigid metrics in education.
  • [00:41:05] Uncomputable Intelligence: The human skills AI cannot replicate.
  • [00:52:18] Scaling Reflection: How Swivl's M2 tool supports teacher development.
  • [00:58:40] Final Thoughts: The future of teacher-led, inquiry-based instruction.

Hosted by ThoughtStretchers Education, The ThoughtStretchers Podcast is built on the belief that the best teaching emerges from genuine dialogue and challenging questions. This isn't about quick tips or superficial trends. Instead, each episode engages in the kind of dialectic conversations that push beyond comfortable assumptions, examining the foundational ideas and complex issues that shape modern learning environments. You'll hear deep, often meandering discussions that probe the "why" behind educational practices, fostering a space for intellectual rigor rarely found in typical professional development. Tuning into this podcast feels like sitting in on a thoughtful, sometimes provocative, roundtable where curiosity is the primary curriculum. It’s for educators who find energy in debate and refinement of thought, who believe that strengthening their own intellectual framework is the first step toward nurturing it in others. The dialogue here is designed to stretch your perspective on pedagogy, curriculum, and the very purpose of education, making it a sustained exercise in professional growth. If you’re looking to engage with education on a more philosophical and principled level, these conversations offer a compelling and substantive resource.
Author: Language: en-us Episodes: 100

The ThoughtStretchers Podcast
Podcast Episodes
DEI in K12 Education [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 45:02
The ThoughtStretchers Education Podcast: DEI in K12 Education Drew Perkins talks with Yunga Webb, Director of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at North Country School, about DEI and their unique school approach. Click To…
Healthy Parent Activism Or Partisan Warfare? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:11:24
Drew Perkins talks with author Laura Pappano about her book, School Moms: Parent Activism, Partisan Politics, and the Battle for Public Education. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Teaching For Intellectual Virtues [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:21:10
Drew Perkins talks with author and professor Jason Baehr about his book, Deep in Thought: A Practical Guide to Teaching for Intellectual Virtues and the Intellectual Virtues Academy Click To View Links & Resources Mentio…
Dispatch From A 19 Y/O Female Education Entrepreneur [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:18
Drew Perkins talks with Stanford student and education entrepreneur, Sofie Roux, about her work to provide education in underdeveloped countries. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Optimizing AI In Education [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:11:01
Drew Perkins talks with Dmitry Shapiro, Founder and CEO of YouAi, about their artificial intelligence platform and how educators can make the most of AI. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Creating Cultures Of Thinking [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:46
Drew Perkins talks with Ron Ritchhart about his new book, Cultures of Thinking in Action: 10 Mindsets to Transform our Teaching and Students' Learning. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
STEM, PBL, Guided Discovery Learning? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:14
Drew Perkins talks with Jason McKenna, Author, Teacher, Speaker, and experienced STEM Education and Ed Tech Leader, about his use of 'Guided Discovery Learning'. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Empowering Children Through Early Literacy [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:12
Drew Perkins talks with Spencer Russell, the founder of Toddlers CAN Read, about applying the 'Science of Reading' to teaching young children to read. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Structured Schooling And Parenting Or Let Grow? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:21:53
Drew Perkins talks with research professor, Peter Gray, about the importance of children's play and more self-directed learning in the well-being of kids. Click To View Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode