It’s not about clutter: Why we misunderstand hoarding

It’s not about clutter: Why we misunderstand hoarding

Author: Charts & Leisure August 12, 2026 Duration: 50:07

In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt interviews renowned psychologist Dr. Randy O. Frost, a pioneering researcher in hoarding disorder, who explains what clinically significant hoarding looks like and why it’s about far more than clutter or cleanliness. At the heart of hoarding, he explains, are powerful emotional attachments to possessions, and the anxiety, grief, and meaning tied to letting them go.

Dr. Frost explores how hoarding often begins in adolescence and can intensify over decades, affecting relationships, families, and daily life. He discusses the roles of trauma, anxiety sensitivity, and difficulty tolerating distress, as well as the many reasons people save things. The conversation also examines treatment, emphasizing that lasting change comes not from big clean-outs, but from reshaping the relationship with possessions and learning to tolerate the distress of discarding.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Frost shares clinical stories, including the story of Marnie Cooper, who documented her own struggle with hoarding and recovery. Her story sets the stage for the next episode of Unravelling, when Marnie joins Mary to speak candidly about her lived experience, what it took to confront her relationship with possessions, and what recovery continues to look like.

Buy Dr. Randy O. Frost's book, Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things

More about Dr. Randy O. Frost


There’s a thread that connects our inner lives to the culture we live in, and Unravelling pulls on it to see what emerges. This isn’t a lecture series, but a conversation guided by therapist Kurt White and journalist Mary Wilson, who bring their distinct perspectives to every discussion. They explore how mental health is woven into everything from our daily fitness routines and societal pressures to the art we consume and the relationships we keep. In each episode, you’ll hear from experts who study the mind alongside individuals sharing their personal, lived experiences, creating a dialogue that feels both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. The aim is to move beyond simple definitions, examining how anxiety, resilience, joy, and struggle shape our collective reality. Produced by Charts & Leisure, this podcast provides a space for nuance, challenging the idea that our psychological worlds exist in a vacuum. It’s for anyone who has ever felt the tension between their private thoughts and the public world, offering not easy answers but a more textured understanding. By listening, you become part of a broader exploration into how compassion, for ourselves and our society, can actually be built from a place of genuine curiosity.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Unravelling
Podcast Episodes
Soundtracks of the self: Protection and expression in (unsafe) spaces [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:55
In this episode of Unravelling, host Kurt speaks with Evelyn Lee, a music therapist based in Singapore, about how music can be a powerful tool for identity, healing, and connection, especially within the LGBTQ+ community…
Queering the self: Finding the space to show up as you are [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:34
In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White sits down with poet, playwright, and social worker Britt Billmeyer-Finn to unpack the ideas and impact of queer theory. Far from being just an academic concept, queer theory is…
The space between us: Healing in groups across difference [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:34
In this episode of Unraveling, Mary Wilson talks with psychotherapist and group facilitator Donna Harris, LCSW, CGP, about the challenging work of healing across lines of difference. Donna explains that real connection i…
Group therapy: The room that reflects you back [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:23
What makes a therapy group more than just a room full of people? In this episode, group psychotherapist J. Scott Rutan, Ph.D. joins Kurt to explore the transformative power of group therapy. Drawing on Dr. Rutan's decade…
Creativity as a lifeline: Healing trauma through expression [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:47
In this episode of Unravelling, Mary sits down with Lane Gardner, musician, educator, and founder of Thread, a nonprofit using collaborative songwriting to help communities heal from trauma. Lane shares the story of a po…
Saying "yes" to our creative impulse [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:51
In this episode of Unravelling, filmmaker and Occidental College professor Aleem Hossain joins host Kurt White for a wide-ranging conversation on the role creativity plays in both personal fulfillment and mental health.…
Finding the self online: Identity, algorithms, and the digital mirror [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:15
In this special crossover episode with Never Post, Unravelling host Kurt White joins writer and digital media expert Mike Rugnetta to explore how the internet shapes identity, self-perception, and mental health. From Tik…
AI-Generated empathy: Chatbots and the future of mental health [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:19
In this episode of Unravelling, host Mary Wilson is joined by Betsy Stade, research scientist and clinical psychologist at the Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI, to explore the profound ways AI is reshaping therap…
Intersectionality, systemic barriers, and Black women's mental health [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:56
In this episode of Unravelling, psychologist Dr. Zoeann Finzi-Adams speaks with Mary about the complexities of mental health in Black women, examining how racism and sexism intersect to shape their experiences. She chall…