It’s not about clutter: Why we misunderstand hoarding

It’s not about clutter: Why we misunderstand hoarding

Author: Charts & Leisure August 12, 2026 Duration: 50:07

In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt interviews renowned psychologist Dr. Randy O. Frost, a pioneering researcher in hoarding disorder, who explains what clinically significant hoarding looks like and why it’s about far more than clutter or cleanliness. At the heart of hoarding, he explains, are powerful emotional attachments to possessions, and the anxiety, grief, and meaning tied to letting them go.

Dr. Frost explores how hoarding often begins in adolescence and can intensify over decades, affecting relationships, families, and daily life. He discusses the roles of trauma, anxiety sensitivity, and difficulty tolerating distress, as well as the many reasons people save things. The conversation also examines treatment, emphasizing that lasting change comes not from big clean-outs, but from reshaping the relationship with possessions and learning to tolerate the distress of discarding.

Throughout the episode, Dr. Frost shares clinical stories, including the story of Marnie Cooper, who documented her own struggle with hoarding and recovery. Her story sets the stage for the next episode of Unravelling, when Marnie joins Mary to speak candidly about her lived experience, what it took to confront her relationship with possessions, and what recovery continues to look like.

Buy Dr. Randy O. Frost's book, Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things

More about Dr. Randy O. Frost


There’s a thread that connects our inner lives to the culture we live in, and Unravelling pulls on it to see what emerges. This isn’t a lecture series, but a conversation guided by therapist Kurt White and journalist Mary Wilson, who bring their distinct perspectives to every discussion. They explore how mental health is woven into everything from our daily fitness routines and societal pressures to the art we consume and the relationships we keep. In each episode, you’ll hear from experts who study the mind alongside individuals sharing their personal, lived experiences, creating a dialogue that feels both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. The aim is to move beyond simple definitions, examining how anxiety, resilience, joy, and struggle shape our collective reality. Produced by Charts & Leisure, this podcast provides a space for nuance, challenging the idea that our psychological worlds exist in a vacuum. It’s for anyone who has ever felt the tension between their private thoughts and the public world, offering not easy answers but a more textured understanding. By listening, you become part of a broader exploration into how compassion, for ourselves and our society, can actually be built from a place of genuine curiosity.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

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