365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
297: Flavorful Righteous Odd Apples [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:46
Are Apples Odd? They sure are for those who solely define apples not by their names (which are often rather exotic like Mountain Rose or Kingston Black) but rather call them by their color, red, green or yellow. In this…
296: Bauman's |Oregon's Destination Farm Cidery [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:59
Who is Bauman Cider Christine Walter is the cidermaker and visionary of Bauman's Cider. She grew up on an apple farm in Oregon runned by her family. As she tells it, Angry Orchard's "Crisp" was the first cider she ever t…
295: Western Cider | Missoula, Montana [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:59
Who is Western Cider Texans Michael Billingsley and Matthew LaRubbio are childhood friends who now both live in Montana and founded Western Cider in 2010. The cidery is based in Missoula and has an indoor and outdoor tas…
294: Lockhorn Hard Cider | Bozeman, Montana [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:48
Who is Lockhorn Hard Cider Alaskan natives Anna and Glenn Deal opened Lockhorn Cider in 2010 in Bozeman, Montana. Anna is a botanist and Glenn came to Montana to study and is a nurse. Lockhorn makes modern ciders with ap…
293: Lee McAlpine of Montana CiderWorks | Established 2002 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:51
Who is Montana CiderWorks Lee McAlpine is the Founder and Owner of Montana Ciderworks based in Darby, Montana. In 2022, Lee will celebrate the 20th year of operations and has a special Pommeau release made with her cider…
292: A Little Italy at Westwind Orchard | New York [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:39
Who is Westwind Orchard and their cider Fabio Chizzola & Laura Ferrara are the owners/farmers of Westwind Orchard located in Accord, New York on the west dies of the Hudson River. The orchard was bought in 2002 and was a…
291: The Century Farm of Ploughman Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:39
Who is Ploughman Cider Ploughman Cider is based in Wenksville Pennsylvania on a family farm owned by the Wenks Family for the past 100 years. The farm is called Three Springs and it is exactly 1.5 miles from the ancestra…
290: Publican Perfection at Tattiebogle Ciderworks | Pennsylvania [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:32
The Publican at Tattiebogle CiderWorks Cidermaker Curt Henry has been envisioning a future cidery in Acme Pennsylvania overlooking the lowland valley in southwestern portion of this commonwealth for years. In 2017 he had…
289: The Road Less Traveled at Big Hill Ciderworks | PA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:35
The Makers at Big Hill Ciderworks Troy Lehman and Ben Kishbaugh are long time friends who originally met while working in the automotive industry. Years later they team up on a very new career path as cidermakers! Both m…
288: Spacetime Mead & Cider Works | Pennsylvania [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:08:38
Who is Spacetime Mead & Cider Works Dan Schreffler had been home brewing and fermenting for many years before opening Spacetime Mead & Cider Works in 2018. He is a self proclaimed science nerd, which is part of the reaso…