365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
009: Ryan Burk | Angry Orchard, New York [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:30
Who is Angry Orchard? Angry Orchard is the #1 cider brand in the US and there is a very good reason why it holds this coveted place. Undoubtedly, being a subsidiary of Boston Beer Company means connections to Jim Koch's…
008: Cider Team | Les Vergers de la Colline, Quebec [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:23
Les Vergers de la Colline, Quebec Now Cidrerie Milton This epsiode was recorded in person with the team at that time of this Quebec based cidery. Note: The name of this cidery has changed since the time of this recording…
007: David Cordtz |Sonoma Cider, California [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:30
David and son Robert have spearheaded an organically certified cidery right in the heart of the wine country in California. Sonoma Cider is located in Healdsburg California, a bit east and north of San Francisco in the a…
006: Paul Zocco | Cidermaker of the Year [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:08
Paul Zocco, of Zok’s Homebrewing and Winemaking, is a 12 time winner of the title “New England Cidermaker of the Year” and he is discussing cider recipes and trends in this episode. Paul Zocco, New England Cidermaker of…
005: President John Adams chats cider & podcasting! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 4:03
President John Adams chats cider & podcasting! Cider Chat MC Ria chats with the 2nd US President John Adams about cider and podcasting - via this mini promo/spoof for "Thanks, Podcasting". Welcome to “Thanks, Podcasting!…
004: Nick Gunn and Dave White | West Coast Ciders [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:00
Gunn and White on a Cider Road Trip Nick Gunn of Anthem Cider and Wandering Aengus in Oregon (as of 2024 both cideries have closed – Nick is now with BenchGraft a cider consulting business) and Dave White, Whitewood Cide…
003: Robert Colnes | Building a Ciderhouse [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:59
Robert Colnes, of New Salem Preserves wanted to build a ciderhouse for the farm's bountiful orchard. Little did he know when he started that he was on journey that would take him two years to complete. New Sale Preserves…
002: Wouter Bijl | CiderCider Netherlands [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:39
Wouter Bijl's opened CiderCider in 2009 online and then as the first cider store for the Netherlands. The Dutch can now proudly proclaim cider has arrived. Proost! This cider chat goes back and forth to the US to the Net…
001: Field Maloney | West County Cider Colrain MA, USA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:59
Field Maloney of West County Cider Field Maloney of West County Cider Terry, Judith and Field Maloney – American Cider Pioneers West County Cider, of Colrain Massachusetts was one of the very first producers of cider pos…
000: Welcome to Cider Chat! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 6:12
Welcome! Let’s begin the journey to Ciderville! Interviewing cidermakers importers, orchardists, foodies, farmers and cider enthusiasts around the world. Let’s delve into the semantics of cider…or is it hard cider, cidre…