365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
049: Agathe Letellier | Manoir d'Apreval, Normandy - France [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:13:21
Are you a cider fan? Then follow this podcast on twitter @ciderchat In this chat: Agathe Letellier is making cider, pommeau and calvados at her cidery Manoir d'Apreval in Pennedepie in Normandy, France. It is a coastal c…
048: Heleen Nobel & Eelco Huizinga | Appels en Peren, Netherlands [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:40
Appels en Perren is the first retail store in Amsterdam selling only Apple and Pear products from the Netherlands and European countries such as France, Germany and the UK. In this week's chat we speak with Heleen Nobel…
047: CiderDays 2016 Schedule | The Oldest Ciderfest in the US [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:44
Simultaneous cider events! Oh My! In this chat I provide insider tips on: The 2016 CiderDays Schedule, held in Franklin County Massachusetts on the first week of November since 1994 Where to buy cider Where to find bulk…
046: Going to CiderDays | Insider Tips, Massachusetts [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:35
With a bit of history on the oldest Cider Fest in the US held the 1st weekend of November. CiderDays (yes it has always been spelled as one word) was founded in 1994, by Judith and Terry Maloney or West County Cider in C…
045: J. Cline Ph.D. & D. Plotkowski | Pomology Cider Research, Canada [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:59
Dr. John Cline and Derek Plotkowski chat on the study of pomes, i.e., Pomology and their current research on cider apples. They are based at the University of Guelph in Ontario Canada. John Cline Pomology and Cider in On…
044: Sebastian Lousada | Flag Hill Farm Cider, VT [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:57
Meet Sebastian Lousada Flag Hill Farm makers of what they call Vermont Organic Hard Cider, is fully off the grid, certified organic, and producers of both cider and Pomme-de-vie AND I bet you haven't heard of it! So Grab…
043: Colin Davis | Shacksbury Cider, VT [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:33
Colin Davis is Production Manager and cidermaker at Shacksbury, a cidery based in northern Vermont in the town of Shoreham. Shacksbury was incorporated in 2013 and began selling ciders in 2014. Unlike many new startups t…
042: Jennifer Smith & Sara Grady | Women Leaders in Cider for NY [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 45:55
Jennifer Smith the Executive Director of New York Cider Association and Sara Grady Founder of NY Cider Week discuss the state's commitment to cider and upcoming events. I sat down for a chat with these two women who are…
041: Emily Ritchie | Northwest Cider Association [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:45
Emily Ritchie is the Executive Director of the Northwest Cider Association a region covering Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana and British Columbia. This region's cider scene is on fire and growing! Emily Ritchie The No…
040 Diego Rivera | Quebrada del Chucao, Chile [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:58
Quebrada del Chucao is a family owned cidery in Villarica (vee aree-ka), a village located in southern Chile. The Nahrwold family along with cousin Diego Rivera have been making cider commercially since 2012. Villarica i…