365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
079: Dan Young | Tandem Ciders, Michigan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:19
Tandem Ciders is the result of two hearts coming together in one spot of Ciderville (the east coast) and finding their way to Michigan. In the late 1990's Dan Young who was the co-owner and brewer at The People's Pint in…
078: Oscar Garcia Busto | Mayador, Asturias [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:57
The Mayador cider brand came about from a lot hard work and ingenuity. Manuel Busto Amandi born in 1906 founded his cider business originally as M.Busto in 1939. Between that time and 1966, Manuel's ingenuity kept the bu…
077: US Cider Trends 2017 | Nielsen Data of Cider Market [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:10:47
The US cider market share in 2017 is growing. This episode on Cider Trends in the US and abroad is a replay of a webinar from April 5, 2017 presented by Danny Brager and Matthew Crompton of the Nielsen Company. The webin…
076: Lou and Sue Chadwick | Grafting at Second Chance Farm, MA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:22
Lou and Sue Chadwick of Second Chance Farm in Greenfield Massachusetts are what I consider the "Apple Pied Pipers". For nearly as long as CiderDays (the oldest cider event in the US) has been running I have seen the Chad…
075: Alan Shapiro | Cider Summit, USA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:27
Alan Shapiro wasn't looking to get involved in cider, being a craft beer enthusiast, one sip at the right time changed his mind and he isn't looking back. He is founder of the widely popular Cider Summits that takes plac…
074: Nicole and Rafe Ward | Forgotten Ciders, Michigan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:13
Nicole and Rafe Ward of Forgotten Ciders are celebrating 3 years of cidermaking this April of 2017. This Michigan cidery has over 1000 variety of apples growing on 16 acres, many of which are cider varieties and red fles…
073: Shea A.J. Comfort | The Yeast Whisper [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:20
The Yeast Whisper's Back Story Having read extensively the books of the day he is, suffice to say, a self taught technical yeast expert. "You realize you have to get some type of competency in science…basic formulas, con…
072: Lost Apples of the Quabbin | Massachusetts [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:21
Lost Apples of the Quabbin is a presentation by Al Sax and Matt Kaminsky documenting their 2016 research and quest for mapping out the apple trees in this historical reservoir region. The Quabbin Reservoir was created to…
071: Jeppe Gents | Fejø Cider, Denmark [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:15
Jeppe Gents opened Fejø Cider in 1999. He calls himself a "cider farmer" having founded his cidery on an island 200 kilometers south of Copenhagen. You can take a 15-minute ride on a ferry to the island and visit this ce…
070: Mattie Beason | Black Twig Cider House, North Carolina [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:48
Mattie Beason's passion for cider led him to open Black Twig Cider House in 2016. This new cider bar is located in Durham, North Carolina right across the street from Duke University. A good location is a key factor as y…