365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
019: Neil MacDonald | Orchard Park Farms, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:10
Neil MacDonald is a self described "man of the soil". He co-launched Orchard Pig Cider in 2004. His specialty is apple growing and the primary process of the cidermaking at Orchard Pig Cider. This recording was taped wit…
018: Darlene Hayes | Cider Cocktails, California [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:55
You might know Darlene Hayes by her blog All into Cider. There you can find some quick cider cocktail lore and recipes. Yes, Cider Cocktails are hot…again! That's right, again! Mixing spirits with cider has been favored…
017: Got Juice? | Apple Juice Supplier, US to UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:30
Getting the right blend or single variety juice to make the perfect cider is part of every business plan for cideries both in the startup phase an ongoing. If you are not growing your own orchard, getting apple juice cou…
016: John Bunker | Super Chilly Farm, Maine [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:41
John Bunker "Friend of Apples" John Bunker in this chat helps to trace the lineage in the US between cider apples and cidermakers. If you ever doubted whether you are on the right track with your cidermaking skills, Have…
015: Chris Jackson | FreedomFarmTV, Georgia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 48:05
At Freedom Farm, cider is on! Chris Jackson who is new to cidermaking has an enthusiasm for fermenting that is contagious. At the Farm his family is working towards sustainability and he is blogging about it all, via his…
014: Joe Getz | Kurant Cider, Pennsylvania [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:18
Kurant Cider co-owner and head cidermaker, Joe Getz's business is expanding, just after one year into producing cider commercially in the eastern region of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia. Besides making cider at Ku…
013: Ryal Schallenberger | Northwest Mobile Juicing, Montana [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:16
Mechanical engineer and entrepreneur Ryal Schallenberger is helping cidermakers throughout the northwest by providing a mobile juicing service. He drives truck and trailer right in to the orchard and in 30-minutes is rea…
012: Randall Grahm | Bonny Doon Vineyard, California [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:05
Who is Randall Grahm Randall Grahm has been rocking the world of winemaking for over 30 years. He began commercially selling wine under the Bonny Doon Vineyard label in 1983 when he opened the winery's tasting room in th…
011: Cider in a Kvervi at Castle Hill Cider | Virginia [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:42
Wooden barrels are so 2014. What is old is new again as Castle Hill Cider has brought to the states an ancient fermenting vessel that was used for over 7000 years. Qvevri or Kvevri, as it is called on this Virginia estat…
010: Margot Sanderse |Het Ciderhuis, Utrecht NL [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:48
Utrecht cider importer Margot Sanderse brings in ciders from the UK and Wales via her mobile bar and online shop Het Ciderhuis. She is an entrepreneur who is touting cider to the Dutch and slowly helping transform their…