365:  A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

365: A Fantastical Indescribable Drink | Cider

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist April 19, 2023 Duration: 59:29

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Episode 365 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 300x200 Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

  • Richie Brady's background
  • Difficulties in describing taste: Language
  • Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
  • Considering Cider's Lexicon

Episode 365 slide 9 on difficulty of describing cider 300x200

Mentions in this Chat

  • @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
  • April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
  • Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
  • Subscribe to eCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
227 The Color of Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 24:57
The Color of Cider provides a snap shot of an early practices used to deter black farmers gaining true equality and the difficulties facing African Americans today who may view farming as a step back to the plantation. W…
226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 11:14
Northern Spy is a short story that weaves the tale of the early grafting of the apple known as the Northern Spy, Quaker values, and the Underground Railroad. Read and written by Ryan Monkman, for the new Cider Chat segme…
225: Terroir Spotlight | western Massachusetts [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:08:25
New England was the Plymouth Rock of cider in the US for the colonist and western Massachusetts is the launch pad of the modern day US cider market. It was here in 1984 that West County Cider and The Maloney family rekin…
224: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series, Part 4 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:25
What is Flor aka Film Yeast and can the cider be saved? It's all in Part 4 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listener…
223: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series, Part 3 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:21
Discover two cidermaking techniques that are also used in winemaking, called Maderisation and Bâtonnage. We delve into both of these topics in Part 3 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" with Ryan Monkman of F…
222: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Series | Part 2 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:53
Part 2 of the Quarantine Quad Series called "Ask Ryan" continues with Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners on working with oak barrels. Listen Part 1 of the Quaran…
221: Ask Ryan | Quarantine Quad Pt1 Q&A [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 40:20
"Ask Ryan" features Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider, Ontario Canada answering questions from Cider Chat listeners. Ryan expertise with oak barrel ferments and oak barrels in general inspired this 4 part series. The fact…
220: Can Sorbs Save the World? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:17
This is a continuation of our conversation with Arnould Narzain of Paris. Listen to Part 1 in episode 218: Sorbs not Sulfites Arnould Narzain with a drop backdrop of Sorbs In this episode Arnould shares even more attribu…
CCL: NY Cider Association | Ex Dir. S.Ramsey [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 22:33
Bonus Cider Chat Live with the New York Cider Association's Scott Ramsey Scott Ramsey stepped into his role as Executive Director of the New York Cider Association on March 1, 2020. New York State was soon to become the…
219: Sorbs Not Sulfites [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:19:06
Sorbus Domestica enthusiast Arnould Narazian of Paris France, shares his knowledge and passion for this King of all Pommes. This "Service Tree's wood was used for wooden screws used in wine presses and the fruit to help…