413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist May 15, 2024 Duration: 1:09:14

Is Ancestral Method different than Pet Nat?

This panel discussion on Ancestral Method was moderate by Nicole Leibon of LeNosse Knows consultation. She was joined by Yann Gilles, a French cider consultant, Levi Danielson of Oregon's RAW cider and David Carr of California's Raging Cider. This feature was was recorded at CiderCon 2024, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association.

Cider Chat Episode 413 Full Ancestral Method panel
(ltor) Nicole LeGrand Liebon, Yann Gilles, Levi Danielson, Dave Carr

The discussion centers around various aspects of cider production, specifically highlighting traditional cider-making methods like the "ancestral method.

Topics discuss on this panel

  • Cider Making Methods and Personal Backgrounds of each speaker
  •  
  • Ancestral Method of Cider Production
    • This traditional method of cider making is particularly prominent in Normandy and Brittany, France.
    •  
    • It involves a two-step fermentation process:
      • the first step is in tanks and the second in bottles, intentionally leaving both fermentations incomplete to retain some natural sugars and create a sparkling cider.
  •  
  • Technical Details in Cider Fermentation
    • Discussions delve into the technical specifics such as controlling yeast population, managing nitrogen levels in the must, and how these factors affect the cider's quality and character.
  •  
  • Influence of Environmental Factors
    • Various environmental factors like orchard age, apple variety, and climatic conditions impact the nitrogen content in apples, which in turn affects the cider's fermentation process
  •  
  • Cider Quality Control Techniques
    •    Techniques like racking, filtration, and the use of centrifuges are explored to manage fermentation and ensure quality.
  •  
  • Packaging and Bottling Considerations
    •    The choice of bottles, pressure management during second fermentation, and how these factors impact the safety and quality of the final cider product are discussed

Cider Chat Episode 413 Ancestral Method Cider Tasted

  • Cider Tasting and Consumer Preferences
    • The session included a cider tasting, emphasizing the importance of understanding consumer preferences and the impact of specific cider-making techniques on the flavor and appeal of the cider.
      • 2022 Cidre AOP Pays d'Auge Cuvée Réserve | Manoir de Grandouet (Normandy)
      •  
      • 2023 AW Cider Pet Nat | RAW Cider Company (Oregon)
      •  
      • 2020 Disco Nat, Metal House Cider (New York)
      •  
      • Jonathan & Liberty | Raging Cider & Mead Company (California)

Enjoy this detailed exploration highlights both the science and the art behind cider making, from orchard management to bottling and consumer satisfaction.

Contact info for Ancestral Methods Panel

Mentions in this Cider Chat


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
218: FieldBird Cider | Canada: Covid Time Update [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 30:57
Ryan Monkman of FieldBird Cider based in Prince Edward County provides an overview of Canada's response to the Covid-19 crisis gripping the world in this episode. Ryan's chat begins at approximately 11:49 minutes into th…
217: Omnia Era of Cider | Pommes in Art [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 25:54
Let's search for the fruit of the story from the Renaissance era to the often-bizarre works of the Mannerist painter of that time. We are exploring how history is repeating itself in our cups of cider in this edition of…
216: Alex Ionov | Rebel Apple, Moscow [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:30
In 2015, there was a windfall of apples in Russian. That moment helped to catapult "The Land of Antonovka" into the cider spotlight world wide. Episode 216 Featured guest is Alexander Ionov of Rebel Apple Cider of Moscow…
CCLive: Helping Cider in Covid Time w/ACA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 19:17
Hear what the ACA and the USA's regional associations are doing to help members while their businesses are shuttered during quarantine. Cider Chat Live: Helping Cider in Covid Time w/ACA Recorded March 19, 2020 with Amer…
215: Andy Hallett of Hallet Cider | UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:49
Join the Talking Pommes and I, as we "Flip the bird" to the Coronavirus! Yes, "feck off" to the virus by signing up now for the upcoming England Cider Tour September 1-6, 2020. 215: Andy Hallett of Hallet Cider | UK Andy…
214: Cider is 'Art + Science' w/Kim & Dan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:42
Cider as Art + Science w/Kim & Dan Kim says, "We consider ourselves a natural cider, Perry and wine company. Our products start with the farming; sourcing quality fruit that is ecologically farmed is important to us. We…
213: The Sleeping Giant has Awoken [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 21:11
Who is the Sleeping Giant? France, of course! The cider regions in Normandy and Brittany are steeped in tradition and rich with select apples and pears that showcase a very specific terroir from each of the appellations.…
212: Northeastern Cider Conference~Scoop! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:44
The Northeastern Cider Conference will take place March 24, 25, 26, 2020 in Albany, NY. Register now - Get group discount for Hotel now through February Tuesday March 24th begins with a kick off with a opening toast and…
211: Tales from CiderCon2020 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 34:21
Enjoy these Snapshots of Tales from CiderCon2020 which details a bit of what I experienced both before the conference, while on the Parajo Valley Cider Tour and then my recap on CiderCon held in Oakland. Thank you to San…
210: Cider Ireland w/Stonewell Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:16
Daniel Emerson discusses his Irish cider brand Stonewell Cider and Cider Ireland, a trade association for Irish cider makers. The American Cider Association annual trade conference CiderCon2020 had the following Irish Ma…