413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist May 15, 2024 Duration: 1:09:14

Is Ancestral Method different than Pet Nat?

This panel discussion on Ancestral Method was moderate by Nicole Leibon of LeNosse Knows consultation. She was joined by Yann Gilles, a French cider consultant, Levi Danielson of Oregon's RAW cider and David Carr of California's Raging Cider. This feature was was recorded at CiderCon 2024, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association.

Cider Chat Episode 413 Full Ancestral Method panel
(ltor) Nicole LeGrand Liebon, Yann Gilles, Levi Danielson, Dave Carr

The discussion centers around various aspects of cider production, specifically highlighting traditional cider-making methods like the "ancestral method.

Topics discuss on this panel

  • Cider Making Methods and Personal Backgrounds of each speaker
  •  
  • Ancestral Method of Cider Production
    • This traditional method of cider making is particularly prominent in Normandy and Brittany, France.
    •  
    • It involves a two-step fermentation process:
      • the first step is in tanks and the second in bottles, intentionally leaving both fermentations incomplete to retain some natural sugars and create a sparkling cider.
  •  
  • Technical Details in Cider Fermentation
    • Discussions delve into the technical specifics such as controlling yeast population, managing nitrogen levels in the must, and how these factors affect the cider's quality and character.
  •  
  • Influence of Environmental Factors
    • Various environmental factors like orchard age, apple variety, and climatic conditions impact the nitrogen content in apples, which in turn affects the cider's fermentation process
  •  
  • Cider Quality Control Techniques
    •    Techniques like racking, filtration, and the use of centrifuges are explored to manage fermentation and ensure quality.
  •  
  • Packaging and Bottling Considerations
    •    The choice of bottles, pressure management during second fermentation, and how these factors impact the safety and quality of the final cider product are discussed

Cider Chat Episode 413 Ancestral Method Cider Tasted

  • Cider Tasting and Consumer Preferences
    • The session included a cider tasting, emphasizing the importance of understanding consumer preferences and the impact of specific cider-making techniques on the flavor and appeal of the cider.
      • 2022 Cidre AOP Pays d'Auge Cuvée Réserve | Manoir de Grandouet (Normandy)
      •  
      • 2023 AW Cider Pet Nat | RAW Cider Company (Oregon)
      •  
      • 2020 Disco Nat, Metal House Cider (New York)
      •  
      • Jonathan & Liberty | Raging Cider & Mead Company (California)

Enjoy this detailed exploration highlights both the science and the art behind cider making, from orchard management to bottling and consumer satisfaction.

Contact info for Ancestral Methods Panel

Mentions in this Cider Chat


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
179: Southern Apples | James Creek Cider House, North Carolina [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:08
Tasty Southern Ciders at James Creek A cider dinner recording from CiderCon2019 in Chicago with Ann Marie and David Thornton of James Creek Cider House in Cameron, North Carolina. The main featured chat begins at 17 minu…
178: WWII and Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:28
178: WWII and Cider | Paying Tribute on Tour Midweek on the Totally Cider Tour to Normandy our first stop of the day was to tour the Brittany American Cemetery also referred to as the Saint James Cemetery. It is located…
177: Giard | 13 Generations of Cider, FR [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:43
177: Giard | 13 Generations of Cider, FR Domaine du Manoir de Montreuil with Patrice Giard In this episode: Patrice Giard recorded during the Totally Cider Tour to Normandy France in September 2018. Patrice is a 13th gen…
176: We Like Cider [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:48
176: We Like Cider In this episode we begin with: News out and about in Ciderville - Thank you Nathan for becoming a patron of Cider Chat. Nathan is part of Harcourt Apples based in Australia approximately 11/2 hours out…
175: Beginner Cider Making  Q & A| Part 2 - CiderCon 2019 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:44
Part 2 of a two part series with a Question and Answer (Q & A) on Beginner Cider Making with 5 panelists in the cider industry Marcus Robert - Tieton Cider Works, Washington Tim Godfrey - Golden State Cider, California E…
174: Beginner Cider Making Q & A | Part 1 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 47:59
A Question and Answer (Q & A) on Beginner Cider Making with 5 panelists in the cider industry Marcus Robert - Tieton Cider Works, Washington Tim Godfrey - Golden State Cider, California Eleanor Leger - Eden Specialty Cid…
173: Aomori to Nagano | inCiderJapan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:28
173: Aomori to Nagano | inCiderJapan Lee Reeve is the Publisher and Editor of the quarterly magazine inCiderJapan, the country's first and only bilingual magazine dedicated to all things cider. Lee and I recorded a chat…
172: Tour and Tasting w/Eric Bordelet | France [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:02
172: Cider Tasting with Eric Bordelet Audio snapshots of a tasting and tour w/Eric Bordelet and the tour group visiting Normandy France in September 2018. The first Totally Cider Tour to roll out took a group of super aw…
171: Americans in Paris [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:50
171: Americans in Paris | Cider Tourists Speak In late September 2018, a group of cider travelers met with the producers of Pays d'Auge and Domfrontais, two regions of cider and perry making in Normandy, France. They wer…
170: Is the Cider in your cup Dry or Sweet? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:33
A "Dryness scale" as presented by the New York Cider Association The session was pre-recorded at CiderCon2019 Goals of this session: Slide 1 A Sensory Workshop on Perceptions of Dryness/Sweetness in Ciders This session w…