413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist May 15, 2024 Duration: 1:09:14

Is Ancestral Method different than Pet Nat?

This panel discussion on Ancestral Method was moderate by Nicole Leibon of LeNosse Knows consultation. She was joined by Yann Gilles, a French cider consultant, Levi Danielson of Oregon's RAW cider and David Carr of California's Raging Cider. This feature was was recorded at CiderCon 2024, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association.

Cider Chat Episode 413 Full Ancestral Method panel
(ltor) Nicole LeGrand Liebon, Yann Gilles, Levi Danielson, Dave Carr

The discussion centers around various aspects of cider production, specifically highlighting traditional cider-making methods like the "ancestral method.

Topics discuss on this panel

  • Cider Making Methods and Personal Backgrounds of each speaker
  •  
  • Ancestral Method of Cider Production
    • This traditional method of cider making is particularly prominent in Normandy and Brittany, France.
    •  
    • It involves a two-step fermentation process:
      • the first step is in tanks and the second in bottles, intentionally leaving both fermentations incomplete to retain some natural sugars and create a sparkling cider.
  •  
  • Technical Details in Cider Fermentation
    • Discussions delve into the technical specifics such as controlling yeast population, managing nitrogen levels in the must, and how these factors affect the cider's quality and character.
  •  
  • Influence of Environmental Factors
    • Various environmental factors like orchard age, apple variety, and climatic conditions impact the nitrogen content in apples, which in turn affects the cider's fermentation process
  •  
  • Cider Quality Control Techniques
    •    Techniques like racking, filtration, and the use of centrifuges are explored to manage fermentation and ensure quality.
  •  
  • Packaging and Bottling Considerations
    •    The choice of bottles, pressure management during second fermentation, and how these factors impact the safety and quality of the final cider product are discussed

Cider Chat Episode 413 Ancestral Method Cider Tasted

  • Cider Tasting and Consumer Preferences
    • The session included a cider tasting, emphasizing the importance of understanding consumer preferences and the impact of specific cider-making techniques on the flavor and appeal of the cider.
      • 2022 Cidre AOP Pays d'Auge Cuvée Réserve | Manoir de Grandouet (Normandy)
      •  
      • 2023 AW Cider Pet Nat | RAW Cider Company (Oregon)
      •  
      • 2020 Disco Nat, Metal House Cider (New York)
      •  
      • Jonathan & Liberty | Raging Cider & Mead Company (California)

Enjoy this detailed exploration highlights both the science and the art behind cider making, from orchard management to bottling and consumer satisfaction.

Contact info for Ancestral Methods Panel

Mentions in this Cider Chat


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
189: Put Cider in the Penny | SILO Distillery, VT [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:02
Put Cider in the Penny was recorded at SILO Distillery in Windsor, Vermont in August of 2019. I had been wanting to catch up with Nicole LeGrande Leibon, every since she moved on from making cider at Farnum Hill Cider in…
188: Cider & Wine Safari w/Randall Grahm at Popelouchum [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:16
Before our Popelouchum Safari, hear about... Two New Cider Zines We begin with an overview of Graftwood and Full Juice, two new cider zines out of the United Kingdom. Graftwood is a subscription based quarterly whereas F…
187: We Want More Cider! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:23
"We Want More Cider" was clearly the take away heard from cider enthusiasts attending the annual Hard Core Cider Tour held in Santa Cruz, California June 27, 2019. Sipping Syndicate's Albert Martinez spearheaded the Hard…
186: "Just Fucking Fermented Juice" [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:28
"Just Fucking Fermented Juice" is splayed out in big white letter across the back of Krista Scruggs' black hoodie. The slogan both amuses and taunts gawkers. Krista wore the hoodie with slogan while attending the annual…
185: Who are the Pomme Boots? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:37
Who are the Pomme Boots? The Pomme Boots Society was founded in 2015 an organization for women working in the cider industry. The first meet up of Pommes Boots was at CiderCon2016 held in Portland, Oregon. This episode w…
184: Judging Best in Show | BigE 2019 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:04
The feature on cider judging in this week's episode begins at 9:43 minutes. The 7th annual BigE Cider and Perry competition took place on June 8, 2019. There were 6 cider judges and this episode features the judging of t…
183: Normandy Cider Trail Tips [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:02
Normandy Cider Trail Tips Annie Sargent is the Producer and Host of a fantastic and informative podcast for anyone thinking about traveling to France called "Join Us in France Travel Podcast". In this episode, Annie and…
182: Traditional Straw Pressed Cider | Sanford Orchards, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:17
Discover traditional straw pressing of cider at Sandford Orchards with Barny Butterfield based in Devon. Traditional Straw Pressing Notes: The press is made up with a combination of thatching reeds. If you are familiar w…
181: The Cider Insider | 100 Craft Ciders to Drink Now [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:49
The Cider Insider | 100 Craft Ciders to Drink Now This chat with Susanna and James Forbes was recorded at CiderCon2019, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association known at that time as the Unite…
180: Cider Is Wine | Simon Day, UK [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:21
180: Cider Is Wine | Simon Day of Once Upon a Tree, UK This chat was recorded at CiderCon2019 in Chicago. Simon Day and I did not speak directly on the topic of the "Cider is Wine" debate, but I do suspect that his early…