413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

413: Ancestral Methods in Cider Making

Author: Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist May 15, 2024 Duration: 1:09:14

Is Ancestral Method different than Pet Nat?

This panel discussion on Ancestral Method was moderate by Nicole Leibon of LeNosse Knows consultation. She was joined by Yann Gilles, a French cider consultant, Levi Danielson of Oregon's RAW cider and David Carr of California's Raging Cider. This feature was was recorded at CiderCon 2024, the annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association.

Cider Chat Episode 413 Full Ancestral Method panel
(ltor) Nicole LeGrand Liebon, Yann Gilles, Levi Danielson, Dave Carr

The discussion centers around various aspects of cider production, specifically highlighting traditional cider-making methods like the "ancestral method.

Topics discuss on this panel

  • Cider Making Methods and Personal Backgrounds of each speaker
  •  
  • Ancestral Method of Cider Production
    • This traditional method of cider making is particularly prominent in Normandy and Brittany, France.
    •  
    • It involves a two-step fermentation process:
      • the first step is in tanks and the second in bottles, intentionally leaving both fermentations incomplete to retain some natural sugars and create a sparkling cider.
  •  
  • Technical Details in Cider Fermentation
    • Discussions delve into the technical specifics such as controlling yeast population, managing nitrogen levels in the must, and how these factors affect the cider's quality and character.
  •  
  • Influence of Environmental Factors
    • Various environmental factors like orchard age, apple variety, and climatic conditions impact the nitrogen content in apples, which in turn affects the cider's fermentation process
  •  
  • Cider Quality Control Techniques
    •    Techniques like racking, filtration, and the use of centrifuges are explored to manage fermentation and ensure quality.
  •  
  • Packaging and Bottling Considerations
    •    The choice of bottles, pressure management during second fermentation, and how these factors impact the safety and quality of the final cider product are discussed

Cider Chat Episode 413 Ancestral Method Cider Tasted

  • Cider Tasting and Consumer Preferences
    • The session included a cider tasting, emphasizing the importance of understanding consumer preferences and the impact of specific cider-making techniques on the flavor and appeal of the cider.
      • 2022 Cidre AOP Pays d'Auge Cuvée Réserve | Manoir de Grandouet (Normandy)
      •  
      • 2023 AW Cider Pet Nat | RAW Cider Company (Oregon)
      •  
      • 2020 Disco Nat, Metal House Cider (New York)
      •  
      • Jonathan & Liberty | Raging Cider & Mead Company (California)

Enjoy this detailed exploration highlights both the science and the art behind cider making, from orchard management to bottling and consumer satisfaction.

Contact info for Ancestral Methods Panel

Mentions in this Cider Chat


There’s a whole world in a glass of cider, and Cider Chat is your invitation to explore it. Hosted by award-winning cidermaker and writer Ria Windcaller, this podcast travels far beyond the bottle to meet the people who make the global cider culture so vibrant. Each conversation is a journey-you might find yourself in a heritage orchard learning the history of forgotten apple varieties, in a bustling taproom with an importer explaining regional traditions, or in a kitchen with a chef pairing cider with unexpected foods. The discussions get into the delightful nuances, too, whether that’s the semantics of what we even call this drink or how the concept of terroir translates from soil to sip. It’s not just about production; it’s about the community, the travel, and the stories that fermentation unlocks. This is for anyone curious about the craft, history, and sheer enjoyment of fermented apple juice in all its forms. So, pour a glass and settle in for a series that feels like a wide-ranging, informative, and genuinely good-humored chat with friends who happen to be obsessed with cider. You’ll come away with a deeper appreciation for every effervescent, tart, or sweet sip, hearing directly from the growers, makers, and enthusiasts who are shaping this drink’s exciting present and future.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 501

Cider Chat
Podcast Episodes
59: Ciderville Tales | Monterey Bay, CA [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 52:59
The farmers of Monterey Bay California have been growing apples since the state constitution was first ratified in1849. The primary apple of the region is Newtown Pippin due partly to the demand for this apple by Martine…
158: CiderCon2019 | M. McGrath - USACM Exec Dir [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:30
Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. ---------------------- The United States Association of Cider Mak…
157: County Cork's Killahora Orchards | Ireland [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:04:44
Killahora Orchards of County Cork is located on the southern tip of the Emerald Isle a.k.a. Ireland and was once the center of the world butter market. Historically it is also known as the "rebel city". Today it is a thr…
156: Not all lees are gross [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:50
Lees: When should we love them and when should we leave them? And what the heck is "lees" anyways? The main chat in this episode begins around 10 minutes in and features Curt Sherrer presenting his workshop titled "All L…
155: Sex(ism) in the Cidery [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:46
Sex(ism) in the cidery was a panel discussion moderated by, Franklin County CiderDays committee chair April Woodard on November 3, 2018. The goal was to take the larger context from the MeToo Movement to the cidery commu…
154: Turning Straw into Gold | Apple Falls Cider Company [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:42
Matt Oskamp and Amelia Campbell started Apple Falls Cider Company in 2017. The cider house is situated alongside the farm store at Campbell Orchards located in Prince Edward County, Ontario. Campbell Orchards is owned by…
153:  Journey to the World's Largest Apple Tree | Kazakhstan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:03:17
In this episode author of "The New Cider Makers Handbook" Claude Jolicoeur presents an overview of his trip to Kazakhstan in August of 2017. This presentation was recorded at the 24th Annual Franklin County CiderDays on…
152: How to teach Cidermaking 101 [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:48
Teaching Cider Making is fairly straight forward: Have on hand: Fresh pressed apple juice A carboy or some sanitized vessel to hold the juice, with enough room for it to ferment and not bubble over. An airlock to release…
151: The Sweet and Sour Side of Cider Podcasting [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:07
Dave Carr makes cider using wild yeast and oak barrels (primarily). Raging Cider and Mead is based in San Marcos, California, which is about 15 minutes in land from Oceanside and based in San Diego County, California. Da…
Hallelujah! 150 Episodes of Cider Chat! [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:55
In this episode 150 The Nose visits the Cider House Recording studio and helps Ria look at "What is possible" in the coming year. With now a 150 episodes there is a lot to review and reminiscence after meeting so many wo…