Dr. Jill Lepore on why the AI backlash is vital for the future

Dr. Jill Lepore on why the AI backlash is vital for the future

Author: The Verge July 20, 2026 Duration: 59:35
Dr. Jill Lepore is one of the best writers there is at identifying institutional patterns in history, and Decoder is a show about systems and organization — so her new book, The Rise and Fall of the Artificial State, is a perfect fit for the show. You build systems by measuring things — gathering information, quantifying it as data, and taking action on it. The book's big thesis is that this kind of systemic measurement is really a dehumanizing act, one that flattens humanity and human concerns into something, well, artificial. These artificial structures touch everything — not just in the more obvious places like in apps or AI, but all the way up to politics, governance, and the very future of the nation-state itself. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links:  The Artificial State | The New Yorker  ‘Terminator’ to tech titans: Jill Lepore on the ‘artificial state’ | Yale Univ. The failed ideas that drive Elon Musk | New York Times Sam Altman | The Joe Rogan Experience Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At the intersection of power, innovation, and consequence, you'll find Decoder with Nilay Patel. Hosted by The Verge's editor-in-chief, this isn't a typical business or technology podcast that simply recites the news. Instead, Nilay engages with founders, CEOs, legislators, and artists in substantive conversations that dissect the mechanics behind major decisions. The dialogue focuses on the real-world implications of big ideas, probing how today's choices in boardrooms and legislatures ripple out into society tomorrow. You'll hear guests articulate their toughest challenges, the trade-offs they've made, and the often-unseen forces shaping industries from social media and artificial intelligence to transportation and entertainment. Each episode is built on a foundation of genuine curiosity, aiming to unpack not just what is happening, but why it matters for the way we all live and work. Listening to this podcast feels like gaining access to a nuanced, behind-the-scenes briefing where strategy and philosophy collide. It's for anyone who suspects that the most important stories aren't the announcements themselves, but the human decisions, the unforeseen problems, and the ethical calculations that happen long before the headlines are written. Through these detailed conversations, Decoder provides a crucial lens on the architects of our modern world and the complex systems they are building, for better or worse.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Decoder with Nilay Patel
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