Judy Fan: Reverse Engineering the Human Cognitive Toolkit

Judy Fan: Reverse Engineering the Human Cognitive Toolkit

Author: Daniel Bashir August 22, 2024 Duration: 1:32:39

Episode 136

I spoke with Judy Fan about:

* Our use of physical artifacts for sensemaking

* Why cognitive tools can be a double-edged sword

* Her approach to scientific inquiry and how that approach has developed

Enjoy—and let me know what you think!

Judy is Assistant Professor of Psychology at Stanford and director of the Cognitive Tools Lab. Her lab employs converging approaches from cognitive science, computational neuroscience, and artificial intelligence to reverse engineer the human cognitive toolkit, especially how people use physical representations of thought — such as sketches and prototypes — to learn, communicate, and solve problems.

Find me on Twitter for updates on new episodes, and reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions.

I spend a lot of time on this podcast—if you like my work, you can support me on Patreon :) You can also support upkeep for the full Gradient team/project through a paid subscription on Substack!

Subscribe to The Gradient Podcast:  Apple Podcasts  | Spotify | Pocket Casts | RSSFollow The Gradient on Twitter

Outline:

* (00:00) Intro

* (00:49) Throughlines and discontinuities in Judy’s research

* (06:26) “Meaning” in Judy’s research

* (08:05) Production and consumption of artifacts

* (13:03) Explanatory questions, why we develop visual artifacts, science as a social enterprise

* (15:46) Unifying principles

* (17:45) “Hard limits” to knowledge and optimism

* (21:47) Tensions in different fields’ forms of sensemaking and establishing truth claims

* (30:55) Dichotomies and carving up the space of possible hypotheses, conceptual tools

* (33:22) Cognitive tools and projectivism, simplified models vs. nature

* (40:28) Scientific training and science as process and habit

* (45:51) Developing mental clarity about hypotheses

* (51:45) Clarifying and expressing ideas

* (1:03:21) Cognitive tools as double-edged

* (1:14:21) Historical and social embeddedness of tools

* (1:18:34) How cognitive tools impact our imagination

* (1:23:30) Normative commitments and the role of cognitive science outside the academy

* (1:32:31) Outro

Links:

* Judy’s Twitter and lab page

* Selected papers (there are lots!)

* Overviews

* Drawing as a versatile cognitive tool (2023)

* Using games to understand the mind (2024)

* Socially intelligent machines that learn from humans and help humans learn (2024)

* Research papers 

* Communicating design intent using drawing and text (2024)

* Creating ad hoc graphical representations of number (2024)

* Visual resemblance and interaction history jointly constrain pictorial meaning (2023)

* Explanatory drawings prioritize functional properties at the expense of visual fidelity (2023)

* SEVA: Leveraging sketches to evaluate alignment between human and machine visual abstraction (2023)

* Parallel developmental changes in children’s production and recognition of line drawings of visual concepts (2023)

* Learning to communicate about shared procedural abstractions (2021)

* Visual communication of object concepts at different levels of abstraction (2021)

* Relating visual production and recognition of objects in the human visual cortex (2020)

* Collabdraw: an environment for collaborative sketching with an artificial agent (2019)

* Pragmatic inference and visual abstraction enable contextual flexibility in visual communication (2019)

* Common object representations for visual production and recognition (2018)



Get full access to The Gradient at thegradientpub.substack.com/subscribe

Hosted by Daniel Bashir, The Gradient: Perspectives on AI moves beyond surface-level headlines to explore the intricate machinery and human ideas shaping artificial intelligence. Each episode is built on a foundation of deep research, leading to conversations that are both technically substantive and broadly accessible. You'll hear from researchers, engineers, and philosophers who are actively building and critiquing our technological future, discussing not just how AI systems work, but the larger implications of their integration into society. This isn't about speculative hype; it's a grounded examination of real progress, persistent challenges, and ethical considerations from those on the front lines. The discussions peel back layers on topics like model architecture, policy, and the fundamental science behind the algorithms becoming part of our daily lives. For anyone curious about the substance behind the buzz-whether you have a technical background or are simply keen to understand a defining technology of our age-this podcast offers a crucial and thoughtful resource. Tune in for a consistently detailed and nuanced take that treats artificial intelligence with the complexity it deserves.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

The Gradient: Perspectives on AI
Podcast Episodes
Michael Levin & Adam Goldstein: Intelligence and its Many Scales [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:21
In episode 97 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Michael Levin and Adam Goldstein. Professor Levin is a Distinguished Professor and Vannevar Bush Chair in the Biology Department at Tufts Universit…
Jonathan Frankle: From Lottery Tickets to LLMs [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:08:22
In episode 96 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Jonathan Frankle.Jonathan is the Chief Scientist at MosaicML and (as of release). Jonathan completed his PhD at MIT, where he investigated the properties of…
Nao Tokui: "Surfing" Musical Creativity with AI [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:19
In episode 95 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Nao Tokui.Nao Tokui is an artist/DJ and researcher based in Tokyo. While pursuing his Ph.D. at The University of Tokyo, he produced his first music album and…
Divyansh Kaushik: The Realities of AI Policy [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:17:44
In episode 94 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Divyansh Kaushik.Divyansh is the Associate Director for Emerging Technologies and National Security at the Federation of American Scientists where his focus…
Tal Linzen: Psycholinguistics and Language Modeling [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:14:50
In episode 93 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Tal Linzen.Professor Linzen is an Associate Professor of Linguistics and Data Science at New York University and a Research Scientist at Google. He…
Kevin K. Yang: Engineering Proteins with ML [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:00
In episode 92 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Kevin K. Yang.Kevin is a senior researcher at Microsoft Research (MSR) who works on problems at the intersection of machine learning and biology, with an emp…
Miles Grimshaw: Benchmark, LangChain, and Investing in AI [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:47
In episode 90 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Miles Grimshaw.Miles is General Partner at Benchmark. He was previously a General Partner at Thrive Capital, where he helped the firm raise its fourth and fi…
Shreya Shankar: Machine Learning in the Real World [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:16:36
In episode 89 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Shreya Shankar.Shreya is a computer scientist pursuing her PhD in databases at UC Berkeley. Her research interest is in building end-to-end systems for peopl…
Stevan Harnad: AI's Symbol Grounding Problem [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:58:21
In episode 88 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Stevan Harnad.Stevan Harnad is professor of psychology and cognitive science at Université du Québec à Montréal, adjunct professor of cognitive sci…