Judy Fan: Reverse Engineering the Human Cognitive Toolkit

Judy Fan: Reverse Engineering the Human Cognitive Toolkit

Author: Daniel Bashir August 22, 2024 Duration: 1:32:39

Episode 136

I spoke with Judy Fan about:

* Our use of physical artifacts for sensemaking

* Why cognitive tools can be a double-edged sword

* Her approach to scientific inquiry and how that approach has developed

Enjoy—and let me know what you think!

Judy is Assistant Professor of Psychology at Stanford and director of the Cognitive Tools Lab. Her lab employs converging approaches from cognitive science, computational neuroscience, and artificial intelligence to reverse engineer the human cognitive toolkit, especially how people use physical representations of thought — such as sketches and prototypes — to learn, communicate, and solve problems.

Find me on Twitter for updates on new episodes, and reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions.

I spend a lot of time on this podcast—if you like my work, you can support me on Patreon :) You can also support upkeep for the full Gradient team/project through a paid subscription on Substack!

Subscribe to The Gradient Podcast:  Apple Podcasts  | Spotify | Pocket Casts | RSSFollow The Gradient on Twitter

Outline:

* (00:00) Intro

* (00:49) Throughlines and discontinuities in Judy’s research

* (06:26) “Meaning” in Judy’s research

* (08:05) Production and consumption of artifacts

* (13:03) Explanatory questions, why we develop visual artifacts, science as a social enterprise

* (15:46) Unifying principles

* (17:45) “Hard limits” to knowledge and optimism

* (21:47) Tensions in different fields’ forms of sensemaking and establishing truth claims

* (30:55) Dichotomies and carving up the space of possible hypotheses, conceptual tools

* (33:22) Cognitive tools and projectivism, simplified models vs. nature

* (40:28) Scientific training and science as process and habit

* (45:51) Developing mental clarity about hypotheses

* (51:45) Clarifying and expressing ideas

* (1:03:21) Cognitive tools as double-edged

* (1:14:21) Historical and social embeddedness of tools

* (1:18:34) How cognitive tools impact our imagination

* (1:23:30) Normative commitments and the role of cognitive science outside the academy

* (1:32:31) Outro

Links:

* Judy’s Twitter and lab page

* Selected papers (there are lots!)

* Overviews

* Drawing as a versatile cognitive tool (2023)

* Using games to understand the mind (2024)

* Socially intelligent machines that learn from humans and help humans learn (2024)

* Research papers 

* Communicating design intent using drawing and text (2024)

* Creating ad hoc graphical representations of number (2024)

* Visual resemblance and interaction history jointly constrain pictorial meaning (2023)

* Explanatory drawings prioritize functional properties at the expense of visual fidelity (2023)

* SEVA: Leveraging sketches to evaluate alignment between human and machine visual abstraction (2023)

* Parallel developmental changes in children’s production and recognition of line drawings of visual concepts (2023)

* Learning to communicate about shared procedural abstractions (2021)

* Visual communication of object concepts at different levels of abstraction (2021)

* Relating visual production and recognition of objects in the human visual cortex (2020)

* Collabdraw: an environment for collaborative sketching with an artificial agent (2019)

* Pragmatic inference and visual abstraction enable contextual flexibility in visual communication (2019)

* Common object representations for visual production and recognition (2018)



Get full access to The Gradient at thegradientpub.substack.com/subscribe

Hosted by Daniel Bashir, The Gradient: Perspectives on AI moves beyond surface-level headlines to explore the intricate machinery and human ideas shaping artificial intelligence. Each episode is built on a foundation of deep research, leading to conversations that are both technically substantive and broadly accessible. You'll hear from researchers, engineers, and philosophers who are actively building and critiquing our technological future, discussing not just how AI systems work, but the larger implications of their integration into society. This isn't about speculative hype; it's a grounded examination of real progress, persistent challenges, and ethical considerations from those on the front lines. The discussions peel back layers on topics like model architecture, policy, and the fundamental science behind the algorithms becoming part of our daily lives. For anyone curious about the substance behind the buzz-whether you have a technical background or are simply keen to understand a defining technology of our age-this podcast offers a crucial and thoughtful resource. Tune in for a consistently detailed and nuanced take that treats artificial intelligence with the complexity it deserves.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

The Gradient: Perspectives on AI
Podcast Episodes
Joon Park: Generative Agents and Human-Computer Interaction [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 2:21:25
In episode 77 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Joon Park.Joon is a third-year PhD student at Stanford, advised by Professors Michael Bernstein and Percy Liang. He designs, builds, and evaluates interactiv…
Christoffer Holmgård: AI for Video Games [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:06
In episode 76 of The Gradient Podcast, Andrey Kurenkov speaks to Dr Christoffer HolmgårdDr. Holmgård is a co-founder and the CEO of Modl.ai, which is building AI Engine for game development. Before starting the company,…
Riley Goodside: The Art and Craft of Prompt Engineering [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:42
In episode 75 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Riley Goodside. Riley is a Staff Prompt Engineer at Scale AI. Riley began posting GPT-3 prompt examples and screenshot demonstrations in 2022. He previously…
Talia Ringer: Formal Verification and Deep Learning [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:45:35
In episode 74 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Talia Ringer.Professor Ringer is an Assistant Professor with the Programming Languages, Formal Methods, and Software Engineering group at the Unive…
Brigham Hyde: AI for Clinical Decision-Making [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 41:43
In episode 72 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Brigham Hyde.Brigham is Co-Founder and CEO of Atropos Health. Prior to Atropos, he served as President of Data and Analytics at Eversana, a life sciences com…
Scott Aaronson: Against AI Doomerism [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:09:32
In episode 72 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Scott Aaronson. Scott is the Schlumberger Centennial Chair of Computer Science at the University of Texas at Austin and director of its Quantum Inf…
Ted Underwood: Machine Learning and the Literary Imagination [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:43:59
In episode 71 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Ted Underwood.Ted is a professor in the School of Information Sciences with an appointment in the Department of English at the University of Illinois at Urba…
Irene Solaiman: AI Policy and Social Impact [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:12:11
In episode 70 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Irene Solaiman.Irene is an expert in AI safety and policy and the Policy Director at HuggingFace, where she conducts social impact research and develops publ…
Drago Anguelov: Waymo and Autonomous Vehicles [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:23
In episode 69 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Drago Anguelov.Drago is currently a Distinguished Scientist and Head of Research at Waymo, where he joined in 2018. Earlier, he spent eight years at Google w…
Joanna Bryson: The Problems of Cognition [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:13:05
In episode 68 of The Gradient Podcast, Daniel Bashir speaks to Professor Joanna Bryson.Professor Bryson is Professor of Ethics and Technology at the Hertie School, where her research focuses on the impact of technology o…