The primeval soil of play

The primeval soil of play

Author: Kensy Cooperrider – Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute June 13, 2025 Duration: 56:37

Puppies wrestling and mock-biting each other. Toddlers playing hide and seek. Kittens pouncing—repeatedly—on a toy mouse. You've no doubt looked on at scenes like this with amusement. And you've no doubt seen some of those viral videos—of ravens sledding down hills, of bumble bees playing with balls. All these moments make us smile, maybe even giggle. But the scientific questions they raise merit serious attention. Where do we see play in the animal kingdom? Where do we not? What functions does play serve? Do we—and many other creatures—have an elemental need for play?

My guest today is Dr. Gordon Burghardt. Gordon is a longtime Professor in the Department of Psychology and the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Tennessee. For decades now, Gordon has been a pioneer in the study of animal play, with a particular focus on play in reptiles and other animals not usually considered playful. His 2005 book, The Genesis of Animal Play, remains a landmark in the field.

Here, Gordon and I talk about the major types of play: locomotor play, object play, and social play. We discuss the five criteria he has proposed for recognizing play across animal taxa. We survey several of the functions of play that have been proposed over the decades, and discuss how—in the end—play doesn't seem to have just one function. We also talk about human play—about what sets it apart, and about the possibility that play lies at the root of many of the capacities and institutions we think of as distinctively, impressively human. Along the way, Gordon and I touch on play in bears, pythons, turtles, fruit flies, and octopuses. We consider play between members of taxonomically distant species. We talk about "self-handicapping"; the surplus resource theory of play; the importance of "risky play" and "free play"; the immersive quality of play; bodily and vocal play signals in mammals; and whether human play is increasingly endangered. 

Without further ado, here's my conversation with Dr. Gordon Burghardt. Enjoy!

 

A transcript of this episode is available here.

 

Notes and links

3:00 – A news article on the finding of "play-like" behavior in fruit flies. The original study.

4:30 – For recent reviews of play by Dr. Burghardt and colleagues, covering the three major types of play, the five criteria for recognizing play, and many other topics, see here, here, and here.

12:00 – For more on Dr. Burghardt's early research and hand-rearing of black bears, see here.

23:30 – For the recent study on ball play in bumble bees, see here. 

26:00 – For an example of studies examining self-handicapping, see this study on belugas. 

27:00 – For a video of a bull and goat butting heads, see here. For more on cross-species play, see this recent paper by Dr. Burghardt and a colleague.

31:00 – For more on the "relaxed open mouth expression" and "play face," see our previous episode on the origins of the smile.  For a recent study about such expressions possibly attested in dolphins, see here.

44:00 – For the book by Johan Huizinga, see here. For some of Dr. Burghardt's ideas about the connections between play and certain aspects of human culture, see here. 

54:00 – For research on the value of "risky play," see work by Dr. Ellen Sandseter. For an article connecting "free play" and children's mental health, see here.

 

Recommendations

Kingdom of Play, by David Toomey

 

Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, which is made possible by a generous grant from the John Templeton Foundation to Indiana University. The show is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte and with creative support from DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Our artwork is by Ben Oldroyd. Our transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala.

Subscribe to Many Minds on Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also now subscribe to the Many Minds newsletter here!

We welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. Feel free to email us at: manymindspodcast@gmail.com. 

For updates about the show, visit our website or follow us on Twitter (@ManyMindsPod) or Bluesky (@manymindspod.bsky.social).


There's a quiet revolution happening in how we understand intelligence, and it's not just about humans. Many Minds, hosted by Kensy Cooperrider of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute, digs into this expansive idea. Each episode is a journey into the inner worlds of creatures and creations we share the planet with. You'll hear from researchers who decode the complex social minds of crows, who map the sensory universe of an octopus, or who grapple with the emerging cognition of artificial systems. This isn't a dry lecture series; it's a collection of thoughtful conversations that feel like pulling up a chair with experts who are genuinely redefining what it means to think, feel, and learn. The Many Minds podcast operates from a simple but profound premise: to grasp our own human experience, we need to listen to the many other kinds of minds around us. Tune in every other week for explorations that are as much about philosophy and wonder as they are about science and education, all grounded in rigorous research and a deep curiosity about the beings-animal, human, and artificial-that fill our world.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 100

Many Minds
Podcast Episodes
The development of evolution [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:36:43
Evolution is not what it used to be. A lot has changed since Darwin's day. In the first half of the 20th century, evolutionary theory was integrated with an emerging understanding of genetics. Late in the 20th century, b…
String theories [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:21:28
Where would our species be without string? It's one of our most basic technologies—so basic that it's easy to overlook. But humans have used string—and its cousins rope, yarn, cordage, thread, etc.—for all kinds of purpo…
The other half of the brain [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 59:39
Neurons have long enjoyed a kind of rock star status. We think of them as the most fundamental units of the brain—the active cells at the heart of brain function and, ultimately, at the heart of behavior, learning, and m…
A paradox of learning [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:42
How do we learn? Usually from experience, of course. Maybe we visit some new place, or encounter a new tool or trick. Or perhaps we learn from someone else—from a teacher or friend or YouTube star who relays some shiny n…
From the archive: The octopus and the android [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:25:39
Happy holidays, friends! We will be back with a new episode in January 2025. In the meantime, enjoy this favorite from our archives! ----- [originally aired Jun 14, 2023] Have you heard of Octopolis? It's a site off the…
Your brain on language [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:32:56
Using language is a complex business. Let's say you want to understand a sentence. You first need to parse a sequence of sounds—if the sentence is spoken—or images—if it's signed or written. You need to figure out the me…
Nestcraft [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:20:01
How do birds build their nests? By instinct, of course—at least that's what the conventional wisdom tells us. A swallow builds a swallow's nest; a robin builds a robin's nest. Every bird just follows the rigid template s…
Animal, heal thyself [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:07:32
What happens to animals when they get sick? If they're pets or livestock, we probably call the vet. And the vet may give them drugs or perform a procedure. But what about wild animals? Do they just languish in misery? We…
The rise of machine culture [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:20:17
The machines are coming. Scratch that—they're already here: AIs that propose new combinations of ideas; chatbots that help us summarize texts or write code; algorithms that tell us who to friend or follow, what to watch…
How should we think about IQ? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:33:45
IQ is, to say the least, a fraught concept. Psychologists have studied IQ—or g for "general cognitive ability"—maybe more than any other psychological construct. And they've learned some interesting things about it. That…