Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Author: Ben Goodheart, David Provan, Ron Gantt September 17, 2025 Duration: 43:29
Another listener question. How good, right? The question? "I am still learning how to apply HOP principles. Can you talk about how they can be used to help us see and respond to risks that never show up in incident data?" It's sort of a version of asking how we know what's happening when nothing is happening, and how the five principles of HOP, if you're into that sort of thing, support that. What five principles, you ask? The ones from Todd Conklin are: 1) Error is normal; 2) Blame fixes nothing; 3) Context drives behavior; 4) Learning and improving are vital; 5) Leadership response matters. Ron starts by answering the question he wishes we were asked, and inadvertently points to some really cool info from the ICAO Human Performance Manual, Document 10151. It's not part of the actual answer, but you should still check it out. Back to the matter at hand, trying to find problems isn't the same as trying to apply principles. Incident data can’t tell you everything, but maybe leaning on the intent of the HOP principles can help uncover weak signals hiding in plain sight. No principles will do the work for us, though, and it’s not about finding broken procedures, either. It’s about finding brittle systems, understanding everyday trade-offs, and asking way better questions. Dave's recipe for success? Give up the 80% of "face-to-screen" time a lot of safety folks waste and get face-to-work (or face-to-face, or whatever else you want to put your face on). There's more to it, but the boys suggest we all stop looking through the rearview mirror and start paying attention to what’s just up ahead. Also: yes, there’s a glory hole analogy, and no, we’re not sorry. The only thing that makes this episode better? A quote from a superfan posted a little while ago on LinkedIn. Fully out of context and in all its glory: "...never mind the quality, feel the width!" Want to learn more? Listen to the episode!

Hosts Ben Goodheart, David Provan, and Ron Gantt aren't interested in comfortable safety myths. Their Punk Rock Safety podcast operates on a straightforward, if humbling, premise: many of our most deeply held beliefs about safety in workplaces and organizations are fundamentally flawed, and we've all likely absorbed a few. This isn't about intelligence, but about the sheer volume of misguided concepts that dominate the field. Each episode is a direct conversation between the three, dissecting these pervasive ideas with a blend of practical experience and critical thinking drawn from management, social science, and business. You'll hear them challenge dogma, question standard procedures that sound good but don't work, and argue for a more realistic, human-centered approach. The tone is conversational and often irreverent, but the goal is serious-to cut through the noise and replace empty safety rhetoric with something more substantive and effective. Tuning into this podcast means joining a discussion that prioritizes honest inquiry over easy answers, all in the service of creating environments where people are genuinely protected.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Punk Rock Safety
Podcast Episodes
Ep. 39: Freedumb [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:51
We're finally back to a NOFX song title, so things are looking up. A lot of the time, when we decide someone did something dumb, we say things like "dude, how'd you fuck that up, it should just be common sense." It's a g…
Ep. 38: Simple Plan [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 43:35
Fine, Simple Plan is only sort of punk. Or punk adjacent. They're about as pop punk as pop punk gets. But it makes for a decent episode name. Why, because safety strategy gets oversimplified a lot. Or really, the idea of…
Ep. 37: Live Fast, Die Young (w/ James Kolozsi) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:16
This episode dives into what it really means to “do safety” when your job is inherently dangerous, like military, police, or even things like aviation. The strategy has to be at least a little better than Live Fast, Die…
Ep. 36: The Process of Belief (w/ Ian Madison) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:40
Ian Madison rolls in with a background of ethically hunted animals (that's what he told us), evidence of like eight million Bad Religion shows, and some serious desire to talk about how traditional safety measurements ar…
Ep. 34: Career Opportunities (With David Strano) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:14
"Sometimes work just fucking sucks" That's what David Strano said back on the Decline episode, and if you're not careful, saying smart things gets you volun-told for a guest appearance on the pod. David's a former tourin…
Ep. 33: It’s My Job to Keep Punk Rock (Safety) Elite [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:05
This week, the boys are talking about theory and practice, because, as the listener who submitted the question says, "fuck you, that's why." It's true, there's a lot of safety literature out there that's gotten more head…
Ep. 32: Authority Zero [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:43
"I think the context was kind of like, how do you go about trying to maybe introduce or convince your organization on some of the more contemporary ideas, when your organization is deeply rooted in zero harm and... Well,…
Ep. 31: The Decline [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:06:24
It was sort of like a NOFX show. People had the wrong time, Ron rolled in when he felt like it, a lot of friends were there, and a few hooligans showed up to make sure we actually did something. Seriously, though, thanks…
Ep. 30: First Ditch Effort [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:07
First off, every new episode is sort of a surprise, but making it to Episode 30 is about 29 more than the boys expected. And of course the title is from a NOFX album. In celebration of Ron's (new) real job at a bit of a…