Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Author: Ben Goodheart, David Provan, Ron Gantt September 17, 2025 Duration: 43:29
Another listener question. How good, right? The question? "I am still learning how to apply HOP principles. Can you talk about how they can be used to help us see and respond to risks that never show up in incident data?" It's sort of a version of asking how we know what's happening when nothing is happening, and how the five principles of HOP, if you're into that sort of thing, support that. What five principles, you ask? The ones from Todd Conklin are: 1) Error is normal; 2) Blame fixes nothing; 3) Context drives behavior; 4) Learning and improving are vital; 5) Leadership response matters. Ron starts by answering the question he wishes we were asked, and inadvertently points to some really cool info from the ICAO Human Performance Manual, Document 10151. It's not part of the actual answer, but you should still check it out. Back to the matter at hand, trying to find problems isn't the same as trying to apply principles. Incident data can’t tell you everything, but maybe leaning on the intent of the HOP principles can help uncover weak signals hiding in plain sight. No principles will do the work for us, though, and it’s not about finding broken procedures, either. It’s about finding brittle systems, understanding everyday trade-offs, and asking way better questions. Dave's recipe for success? Give up the 80% of "face-to-screen" time a lot of safety folks waste and get face-to-work (or face-to-face, or whatever else you want to put your face on). There's more to it, but the boys suggest we all stop looking through the rearview mirror and start paying attention to what’s just up ahead. Also: yes, there’s a glory hole analogy, and no, we’re not sorry. The only thing that makes this episode better? A quote from a superfan posted a little while ago on LinkedIn. Fully out of context and in all its glory: "...never mind the quality, feel the width!" Want to learn more? Listen to the episode!

Hosts Ben Goodheart, David Provan, and Ron Gantt aren't interested in comfortable safety myths. Their Punk Rock Safety podcast operates on a straightforward, if humbling, premise: many of our most deeply held beliefs about safety in workplaces and organizations are fundamentally flawed, and we've all likely absorbed a few. This isn't about intelligence, but about the sheer volume of misguided concepts that dominate the field. Each episode is a direct conversation between the three, dissecting these pervasive ideas with a blend of practical experience and critical thinking drawn from management, social science, and business. You'll hear them challenge dogma, question standard procedures that sound good but don't work, and argue for a more realistic, human-centered approach. The tone is conversational and often irreverent, but the goal is serious-to cut through the noise and replace empty safety rhetoric with something more substantive and effective. Tuning into this podcast means joining a discussion that prioritizes honest inquiry over easy answers, all in the service of creating environments where people are genuinely protected.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Punk Rock Safety
Podcast Episodes
Ep. 9: Ron Goes to College [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:49
By the time this episode comes out, Ron will have defended his doctoral dissertation, a whole lot like Milo from The Descendents did. Except Ron is cooler. We're talking about investigations in this episode. What are the…
Ep. 8: PRS Fucking Rules [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:04
The boys are live from CHOL in Henderson (almost Las Vegas) for this one. And it's a discussion about rules. Punk rock isn't exactly about following rules, and maybe that's something that should carry over to how we thin…
Ep.6: I Wanna Be Your Dog(ma) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:12
We talked about metrics and measures last time, so if we're setting fire to something, we may as well spread the love. So, yeah, it's all about dogma this time. Or safety flavor. Or whatever you want to call it. Is there…
Ep 5: Size Matters [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:01:51
The fame is getting to Ron's head a little bit. Dave's too. Ben doesn't get out much, but give it time. This one is a little more serious for some reason. Maybe it's because we're talking about metrics and measurement (n…
Ep 4: Fuck! Are We Lost? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:08:35
Ben, Dave, and Ron talk about drift in this episode. We've drifted along this far. May as well keep going. We talk about how things move away from a plan or expectation (you know, like how the quality of this podcast may…
Ep 3: Can Anybody Sing? (With John Wilkes) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:44
Holy shit, we have our first guest. We told John he was trying out as the singer of the band so we could get him here. Turns out he can't sing. But he's a helluva guy, and he's crazy smart. John Wilkes is the Senior Dire…
Ep 2: Here We Go [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 50:46
Ron, Dave, and Ben discuss what it means to be a safety professional. Well, if safety professionals are even necessary in organizations; Ron's not sure. Ben can't figure out how to go to conferences, so there are some he…
Ep 1: Sound Check [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:42
It's the first episode, okay. We're not winning any awards for this one, but it's on the books. Think of it a little like a band doing a sound check. We talk about audits, some of our favorite punk bands, what it means t…