Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Author: Ben Goodheart, David Provan, Ron Gantt September 17, 2025 Duration: 43:29
Another listener question. How good, right? The question? "I am still learning how to apply HOP principles. Can you talk about how they can be used to help us see and respond to risks that never show up in incident data?" It's sort of a version of asking how we know what's happening when nothing is happening, and how the five principles of HOP, if you're into that sort of thing, support that. What five principles, you ask? The ones from Todd Conklin are: 1) Error is normal; 2) Blame fixes nothing; 3) Context drives behavior; 4) Learning and improving are vital; 5) Leadership response matters. Ron starts by answering the question he wishes we were asked, and inadvertently points to some really cool info from the ICAO Human Performance Manual, Document 10151. It's not part of the actual answer, but you should still check it out. Back to the matter at hand, trying to find problems isn't the same as trying to apply principles. Incident data can’t tell you everything, but maybe leaning on the intent of the HOP principles can help uncover weak signals hiding in plain sight. No principles will do the work for us, though, and it’s not about finding broken procedures, either. It’s about finding brittle systems, understanding everyday trade-offs, and asking way better questions. Dave's recipe for success? Give up the 80% of "face-to-screen" time a lot of safety folks waste and get face-to-work (or face-to-face, or whatever else you want to put your face on). There's more to it, but the boys suggest we all stop looking through the rearview mirror and start paying attention to what’s just up ahead. Also: yes, there’s a glory hole analogy, and no, we’re not sorry. The only thing that makes this episode better? A quote from a superfan posted a little while ago on LinkedIn. Fully out of context and in all its glory: "...never mind the quality, feel the width!" Want to learn more? Listen to the episode!

Hosts Ben Goodheart, David Provan, and Ron Gantt aren't interested in comfortable safety myths. Their Punk Rock Safety podcast operates on a straightforward, if humbling, premise: many of our most deeply held beliefs about safety in workplaces and organizations are fundamentally flawed, and we've all likely absorbed a few. This isn't about intelligence, but about the sheer volume of misguided concepts that dominate the field. Each episode is a direct conversation between the three, dissecting these pervasive ideas with a blend of practical experience and critical thinking drawn from management, social science, and business. You'll hear them challenge dogma, question standard procedures that sound good but don't work, and argue for a more realistic, human-centered approach. The tone is conversational and often irreverent, but the goal is serious-to cut through the noise and replace empty safety rhetoric with something more substantive and effective. Tuning into this podcast means joining a discussion that prioritizes honest inquiry over easy answers, all in the service of creating environments where people are genuinely protected.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Punk Rock Safety
Podcast Episodes
Ep. 19: The Cause [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:23
We keep forgetting (except for now, because we're definitely mentioning it) to say that there's some evidence that Fat Mike from NOFX loves the podcast. We'd go so far as to say it's his favorite pod. We're the "Seal Tea…
Ep. 18: The War On Errorism [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 55:36
Yet another NOFX inspired title, huh? Yep. We're a one-trick pony around here. The boys have finally gotten around to human error, which is a theme for this podcast anyway. Maybe there's a difference between fuck-up and…
Ep. 17: 21st Century Digital Boy (With Colette Alexander) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:02:57
This one's a little different. The title may give some of that away (and it's a Bad Religion song). None of your three hosts are tech wizards, but Collette Alexander joins the pod, and she is (even though she might argue…
Ep. 16: Fuck Authority [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:37
It's Episode 16, punks. The boys start this one with a peek behind the curtain into just how much prep goes into the pod. Spoiler: not a lot. It's sort of like a punk show that way. The topic for 16 is regulators, which…
Ep. 15: Sellouts [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:56
In punk, being a sellout means you've abandoned the punk rock culture: anti-authority, DIY, non-conformity, and tearing apart systems that don't work for the people. So what happens if you shake up the idea of safety cul…
Ep. 14: Risk Assess-holes [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 57:37
When's the last time the outcome of a risk assessment was a surprise? Thought so. So why do we do risk assessments, anyway? Are we really making decisions based on them? It doesn't sound like it. Is it a social process,…
Ep. 13: I Heard They Suck Live! (With Sam Goodman) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:05:18
Fine. You're right. The title is also the name of a NOFX album. NOFX is rad, though, so we're keeping it. This week, we're talking to a kickass guest, Sam Goodman, about making safety less sucky. Sam even wrote a book ab…
Ep. 12: Fuck Safety, Make Money [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:54
It's episode 12, and we've got a new quote for a T-shirt, and instead of "goal conflicts," we just went with the title of the episode. Watch the merch store; we'll get it sorted. So, safety first, right? Maybe. Sometimes…
Ep. 11: People Suck [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 58:10
Snake eyes, MFers! It's episode 11, and with a minute of prep or so, we settled on figuring out if people really are the solution to things, especially safety things. Toxic Narcotic has a song called "People Suck" I mean…
Ep. 10: Wanna Go To A Joint Party? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:00:49
The fact that we've made it to episode 10 is sort of miraculous. Like a stage diver, you don't have to want it, but it's happening. We're talking about contractor management—or, as Ron calls it, "cross-boundary joint act…