Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Ep. 40: Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width

Author: Ben Goodheart, David Provan, Ron Gantt September 17, 2025 Duration: 43:29
Another listener question. How good, right? The question? "I am still learning how to apply HOP principles. Can you talk about how they can be used to help us see and respond to risks that never show up in incident data?" It's sort of a version of asking how we know what's happening when nothing is happening, and how the five principles of HOP, if you're into that sort of thing, support that. What five principles, you ask? The ones from Todd Conklin are: 1) Error is normal; 2) Blame fixes nothing; 3) Context drives behavior; 4) Learning and improving are vital; 5) Leadership response matters. Ron starts by answering the question he wishes we were asked, and inadvertently points to some really cool info from the ICAO Human Performance Manual, Document 10151. It's not part of the actual answer, but you should still check it out. Back to the matter at hand, trying to find problems isn't the same as trying to apply principles. Incident data can’t tell you everything, but maybe leaning on the intent of the HOP principles can help uncover weak signals hiding in plain sight. No principles will do the work for us, though, and it’s not about finding broken procedures, either. It’s about finding brittle systems, understanding everyday trade-offs, and asking way better questions. Dave's recipe for success? Give up the 80% of "face-to-screen" time a lot of safety folks waste and get face-to-work (or face-to-face, or whatever else you want to put your face on). There's more to it, but the boys suggest we all stop looking through the rearview mirror and start paying attention to what’s just up ahead. Also: yes, there’s a glory hole analogy, and no, we’re not sorry. The only thing that makes this episode better? A quote from a superfan posted a little while ago on LinkedIn. Fully out of context and in all its glory: "...never mind the quality, feel the width!" Want to learn more? Listen to the episode!

Hosts Ben Goodheart, David Provan, and Ron Gantt aren't interested in comfortable safety myths. Their Punk Rock Safety podcast operates on a straightforward, if humbling, premise: many of our most deeply held beliefs about safety in workplaces and organizations are fundamentally flawed, and we've all likely absorbed a few. This isn't about intelligence, but about the sheer volume of misguided concepts that dominate the field. Each episode is a direct conversation between the three, dissecting these pervasive ideas with a blend of practical experience and critical thinking drawn from management, social science, and business. You'll hear them challenge dogma, question standard procedures that sound good but don't work, and argue for a more realistic, human-centered approach. The tone is conversational and often irreverent, but the goal is serious-to cut through the noise and replace empty safety rhetoric with something more substantive and effective. Tuning into this podcast means joining a discussion that prioritizes honest inquiry over easy answers, all in the service of creating environments where people are genuinely protected.
Author: Language: English Episodes: 50

Punk Rock Safety
Podcast Episodes
Ep. 50: Skinny Mike (w/ Mike Rayo) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 56:03
It's big episode 50 over here at Punk Rock Safety, and the boys have made it exactly 49 episodes further than anyone would have thought. By now, you've probably caught on to the whole NOFX theme. It's not a song title fo…
Ep. 49: Jeff (Todd) Wears Birkenstocks (w/ Todd Conklin) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 1:17:15
This episode is what happens when the boys hit record while hanging out with Todd Conklin and then decide, “Good enough, let’s roll with it.” The Toddfather has definitely been seen rocking Birks, so he gets his very own…
Ep. 48: How Did The Cat Get So Fat? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 42:02
The boys are back (and they're looking for trouble - see if you can sort out that lyric) for Episode 48, kicking off 2026 with the standard blend of profanity, punk rock references, and sometimes solid safety insights. A…
Ep. 47: When Did Punk Rock Become So Safe? [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 38:09
Happy New Year, you beautiful punks! It's not a NOFX song, but the title is from Separation of Church and Skate, so that counts. Shocking, but his one is a full “figure it out live” episode. No prep. No agenda. Just the…
Ep. 46: My Heart Is Yearning [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 49:59
My heart is yearning (yep, it’s a NOFX song) in anticipation. Of what? Well, that’s what the episode is, you jerk. Don’t ruin the surprise. Coming on the heels of the tragic shooting in Sydney, Australia, the boys couldn…
Ep. 45: And Now For Something Completely Similar (w/ Brian Hughes) [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:58
After the usual BS of “Did anyone invite a guest?” and “Let’s text random people while we're recording,” the boys get down to business: a whole lot of safety plans are the same recycled Word doc with a new company logo s…
Ep. 44: Dinosaurs Will Die [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 51:24
This episode dives into the reality of safety management systems; how they often feel disconnected, bloated, and stuck in the past. You know. Like a dinosaur. Maybe worse than being a dinosaur is being a dinosaur just fo…
Ep. 43: Punk Rock Saves Lives [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 53:07
If you've never read all the way to the bottom of the episode notes, you won't know what PRSL is. Now you do. It's a good name for an episode, but seriously, go check out punkrocksaveslives.org. They're solid folks doing…
Ep. 42: The Age of Unreason [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 46:43
First things first, fun without Dave already happened. Ron and Ben saw The Casualties, Adolescents, Adicts, and Dwarves. All of those bands have been around for a long time - like 30-40 years - and that definitely doesn'…
Ep. 41: Go to Work Wasted [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 54:37
It's a deep cut, but it's another NOFX song title for the episode. Probably don't go to work wasted, but if you do, make sure you talk about it in the pre-job brief. Pre-job, or pre-task, or pre-work briefs - or whatever…