GA 646 | Connect Before You Correct with Royden Johnson and Luc van Merrienboer

GA 646 | Connect Before You Correct with Royden Johnson and Luc van Merrienboer

Author: Ron Pereira: Lean Thinker & Co-Founder of Gemba Academy August 20, 2026 Duration: 35:25

Culture shapes how people receive change, and nowhere is that clearer than on a shop floor where history, language, and moral authority all sit alongside the 5S board. Royden Johnson and Luc van Merrienboer bring two distinct lenses to that tension: Royden from years of leading continuous improvement in South Africa, and Luc from rolling out digital transformation across Asia and now the African continent. Their conversation with Ron covers resistance, influence, and what it actually takes to bring people along rather than drag them forward.

In this episode you’ll learn:

  • The cultural context of 5S in Asia and Africa (5:01)
  • How 5S connects to every performance pillar in a manufacturing operation (9:43)
  • What digital transformation actually looks like on a shop floor (13:04)
  • Where their passion for continuous improvement comes from (15:42)
  • How to use personal, social, and structural influencing strategies together (17:18)
  • How to handle CAVE people without losing the rest of the team (19:29)
  • Why unemployment history in South Africa shaped resistance to continuous improvement (25:32)
  • What happened when a leader stopped pushing and started listening (27:28)
  • How to speak, listen, and lead while keeping everyone’s dignity intact (31:50)

Keep Learning

If the discussion about moral authority, influencing strategies, and leading change on a diverse shop floor resonated with you, the School of Leadership offers structured ways to develop those same skills in your own context.
Learn More About School of Leadership at gembaacademy.com/leadership

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What Do You Think?

When you have encountered a CAVE person in your organization, what shifted the dynamic?


Hosted by Ron Pereira, a lean thinker and co-founder of Gemba Academy, the Gemba Academy Podcast is a deep and practical resource for anyone looking to build a better organization. The conversations here move beyond theory, focusing on the real-world application of methodologies like Lean Six Sigma and Toyota Kata. You’ll hear from practitioners and leaders who share stories from the front lines, detailing how they tackle complex problems, foster genuine productivity, and develop effective teams. Each episode feels like a candid workshop, breaking down concepts into actionable steps you can apply immediately. This isn't about abstract ideals; it's about the tangible work of improvement, from the shop floor to the executive suite. Tune in for a learning experience that challenges conventional wisdom and provides the tools for meaningful change. The Gemba Academy Podcast turns the philosophy of continuous improvement into a clear and accessible path forward for business professionals and educators alike.
Author: Language: en-us Episodes: 50

Gemba Academy Podcast: Lean Six Sigma | Toyota Kata | Productivity | Leadership
Podcast Episodes
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Duration: 36:13
Most continuous improvement practitioners are using AI the same way they use Google, and getting roughly the same quality of results. David Osagie-Igiehon has taken a different approach. He builds custom agents trained o…
GA 649 | Accountability Starts in the Mirror with Michael Caito [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 31:02
Most organizations have a strategy. Far fewer can actually execute one. Michael Caito built and sold a food delivery business decades before DoorDash existed, then spent years helping other companies close the gap betwee…
GA 648 | Discovering Lean in High School with Ted Pendergrass [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 37:11
Most lean practitioners spend their careers trying to change the minds of adults who have been doing things the same way for decades. Ted Pendergrass decided to start earlier. Over 20 years coordinating a career technica…
GA 647 | Making Sleep a Priority with Tim Thomas [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 39:20
Most organizations measure productivity, absenteeism, and safety incidents without ever asking what all three have in common. Tim Thomas, a former Australian Special Forces soldier turned sleep specialist, argues the ans…
GA 645 | Why Leadership Is Failing with Keith Wyche [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 24:18
Trust in leadership has been declining for decades, and Keith Wyche has the research to prove it. A 40-year veteran of AT&T, IBM, and Walmart, Keith opened up to us about a few mistakes he’s made in his career. The real…
GA 644 | Defining Propaganda with Owen Fitzpatrick [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 44:01
Most leaders assume that the right argument, delivered clearly, will change minds. Owen Fitzpatrick has spent 30 years studying why that assumption is wrong. A psychologist who has worked inside some of the world’s most…
GA 643 | Asking Better Questions with Kabrina Ashley [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 36:53
Most organizations say they want high performers, yet quietly punish them for being too valuable to lose. Kabrina Ashley, a coach and behavioral science practitioner based in Nashville, makes the case that the real barri…
GA 642 | The Future of Work with Jonathan David Lewis [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 32:54
Something fundamental has shifted in how people relate to work, and most leaders are still operating from a story that the workforce has already left behind. Jonathan David Lewis, president of brand strategy firm McKee W…
GA 641 | What Makes a Good Teammate with Eric Reveno [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 35:33
Most organizations spend enormous energy developing leaders and almost none developing teammates. Stanford Associate Head Men’s Basketball Coach Eric Reveno has spent 30 years watching what actually determines whether a…
GA 640 | Optimistic Fear with Cornelia Choe [not-audio_url] [/not-audio_url]

Duration: 33:11
Most leaders think their biggest risk is making the wrong call. Cornelia Choe argues the real danger comes earlier, when a leader stops questioning the mental map they're using to make calls in the first place. In her bo…